Should You Expect to Pay Consultation Fees for an Employment Attorney? The “I Got Fired” Podcast With Rebecca Pontikes Transcript

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Announcer: Fired from your job? Afraid you might be fired? Are you facing other problems at work? Listen to what the lawyers have to say about it. Here’s your host, Attorney Tom Spiggle.

Tom: Welcome to the “I Got Fired Podcast” for people who have gotten fired or afraid they might be. I am the host, Tom Spiggle with the Spiggle Law Firm and I am thrilled today to have with me Rebecca Pontikes. Did I get that right, Rebecca?

Rebecca: You got it right.

Tom: All right. I nailed it. Okay. So we today are going to be talking about the issue of consult fees in employment law cases. You might hear some more of this topic we had discussed with Jacob Small in an earlier podcast where we just touched on it briefly, but this podcast will just be about that issue. So again, I’m thrilled to have Rebecca with us. Rebecca is a plaintiff’s side employment lawyer based in Boston, right? Is that right, Rebecca?

Rebecca: Based in Boston. That’s right.

Tom: Based in Boston, wearing the white hat, doing the same sort of work that we do. Rebecca, I’m gonna let you tell folks a little bit more about what you do and where somebody can find you, if they want to.

Rebecca: So I do only plaintiff’s employment law work. I focus my practice on discrimination against caregivers. That’s moms and dads that get penalized at work because they have to care for kids, their aging parents. I do a lot of sexual harassment work. I also do a lot of work with Title IX plaintiffs, but in addition to that, I do do the whole gamut of employment law work, especially I end up doing a lot of non-compete agreements because this is Boston where we have a lot of healthcare and a lot of tech, but we’re the other Silicon Valley.

And so that’s what I do. And you can find me on the web at www.pontikeslawllc.com. And for everybody who’s wondering how in the world do you spell Pontikes, it’s P like Peter, O-N-T-I-K-E-S. You can learn more about me there, but I do have a very, very sharp bent towards doing work that involves women’s rights. So you’ll see a lot of that, as well.

Tom: That’s great. And I can say from reputation and first-hand experience that Rebecca is a fantastic lawyer. I mean, we share the same passion for representing, you know, pregnancy discrimination and family responsibility discrimination cases, which is, you know, important work. Can you, Rebecca, tell people who don’t know just for the Title IX purposes what that means? Who do you represent for Title IX cases? Who would call you for that?

Rebecca: I represent students or professors or staff who have reported sexual harassment or sex discrimination and then were retaliated against where the school did nothing about it. So that’s what that means.

Tom: Well, I look forward to having you back on to discuss some of these, the substantive law, because it’s important stuff and it sounds like you got a lot of good experience. Any number of those topics are hot button issues. You know, non-competes are also big here. So those are all topics we can delve into, but today, we’re gonna be focusing more on what our listeners might be facing at the early stages of trying to find an attorney. You know, in other episodes on this show, we’ve covered how to do, you know, some of your own research to get a sense of whether or not you have a case, how to find an attorney, what to expect when you pick up the phone to call an attorney, particularly an employment law attorney.

And today I want to drill down on with you, Rebecca, consult fees. And that’s something that I think often comes up within employment law cases and that people should have some view or some understanding of it. And I know that both you and I do charge consult fees, but we’re not here to put our finger on the scale and suggest that’s always the right way to do it, but just to talk about that issue. So let me start with you. And you do charge them. And why don’t you give me your and our listeners the reason why that is.

Rebecca: Well, because I do a lot of these caregiver cases, which are largely discrimination claims, they require a lot of very careful analysis, hours’ worth, literally two to three hours’ worth. And that’s not even counting the meeting with the potential client before I really feel comfortable taking a case. And it’s hard to explain to people that aren’t lawyers, but the easiest way that I’ve found is to say, “It’s really easy in these cases for the lawyer to spend a lot of money and time over the course of a year only to have the case completely dismissed by the court.” So because of that, I have to really look hard and at a lot of details into these complaints.

I often have…In Massachusetts, employers are required to give you a personnel file upon request. So I will always ask the potential client to gather that for me in advance of meeting them and in advance of my decision about whether or not I take the case. Some people, if they’re long-term employees, especially have very thick personnel files. I also get a lot of claims for harassment. And I think people don’t always understand what the legal definition of harassment is. And because harassment claims are very he said, she said, this happened, then that happened, they can roll on for many years.

Again, there’s a lot of unpacking and a lot of reading and a lot of figuring out what’s going on that I have to do that can take a very long time, but getting all of the facts, even the small facts right, can really have an impact on whether or not someone has a claim. So I am spending probably two to three hours analyzing a case before I even decide to take it in. And so that’s a big reason why I charge consultation fees. I also charge the fees because I’m doing a lot more in a consultation than telling someone, “Yes, you have a case. No, you don’t.” Sometimes when people come to me, they haven’t been fired yet. And I can probably give them some good advice about what to do and how to…You can’t protect your job, but you can at least protect your potential for bringing a legal claim, which may give you leverage later, if you get fired. And that, I think, is a service to people that are coming in.

I can also help them with negotiations. I’ve helped a lot of people with negotiations. And the employer never has to know that I’m there, but explaining to people what their legal rights are and are not can really be very helpful and go a long way towards them getting something they want out of their employer, whether it’s a better terms of dismissal, whether it’s more in their severance package. And this can go a long way and be beyond what they could possibly get out of litigation. So from that perspective, I think it’s a service that I’m offering to people. And so I think it’s worth paying me to sit down and figure all of this out.

Tom: Yeah. No, I think those are all excellent points. And it’s worth pointing out that both you and I have, you know, similar…I mean, we’re not big firm operations. So are you solo or do you have other attorneys with you? I can’t remember.

Rebecca: I have an associate. And she does a lot of the vetting of my potential clients. So something that I sometimes tell people is, “Well, you know, you did spend some time on the phone with my associate, for which you were not charged.” So to the extent that there’s any free consultation, that’s it, but in terms of sitting down and really going over the claim and making a decision, that’s something that, if you want to see me and have me spend my time on it that I will have you pay for. I mean, I will also say that there are many times when I do research in advance of a consultation because the law, you know, unfortunately, in these areas, it’s not always very clear. And there may be some sort of a claim there that with the proper research and looking at the facts that somebody could bring that, you know, just looking at it for 20 minutes for free, I never would have found.

Tom: Yeah. No, I think that, you know, the point for me is that we have similar business models in the sense that it’s not as if we are bigger firms with a big stable of attorneys where you can devote a certain number of resources to screening cases. So when you are doing, as is true in our office, when an attorney is doing a consult, that is time away from working other cases, you know. So I think that’s another reason that attorneys charge them because otherwise, they couldn’t offer consults at all because you’d go broke.

Rebecca: That’s absolutely true. I mean, I will say that sometimes people come in and, you know, they send me a banker’s box full of documents. And, you know, even just figuring out what’s important and what’s not, a lot of times I have a consultation and it pretty much blows my whole day.

Tom: Yeah. No, it can take a long time. Well, let me ask you this. I know a lot of people who, you know, and of course, we don’t expect them to be, but they’re not used to the employment law world. Maybe they’ve just gotten fired or they’ve gotten a call from HR and they’re looking for a lawyer and their own Avvo or their own Google or they’re driving down the road and they see a billboard that says, you know, “Call 1-800 accident and free consultation,” why is that different from what you do?

Rebecca: Well, it’s different, well, for actually a variety of reasons. One is that personal injury cases are simply not as likely to be dismissed before trial. And so the investigation that has to go into it is less on, especially for the simpler types of claims. Two is that the verdicts are going to be much bigger. I think people don’t understand that employment law claims, unless they’re class actions, are not going to be million-dollar verdicts, unless that’s how much money you were making. Employment claims are, the meat of them are, your lost wages. So if you got re-employed very quickly, your case is not valuable to the lawyer. I tell people when they see me, “The value of your case is inversely proportional to the quality of your life.”

Tom: That’s true.

Rebecca: And, you know, obviously, I would much rather you come in here and tell me, “Hey, my quality of life is fine,” but that has a serious impact on whether or not your case as a business proposition is something that I can take. And I don’t mean to sound crass and cold about it. I know these are dignity violations in many respects. People come to me and they are very upset. They are very angry. They have been treated in a way that made them feel less than human. That’s why they’re in my office, but, as President Trump likes to remind us, this is capitalism. And while I would love to be in a system where the type of work that you and I do is publicly subsidized, we’re not. And so I have to pay bills, too, so do you.

I have to pay my associates. And I have to pay my rent and just eat. I can’t. And so if I’m not going to be looking at a seven-figure verdict at the end of a trial, it makes it a lot harder to justify a lot of time for free. Personal injury lawyers, if they get a bad enough case, they’re looking at seven-figure verdicts. So for them, it’s a lot easier to say, “Sure. I can spend some free time.” Some of them will even invest a lot of time and money into investigating a case because the payoff will be worth it, but we just don’t have the same guarantee of the payoff. And I will say that there are fewer consultation fees in the employment law world, I think, with the class-action attorneys because they do get the big payoffs.

Tom: Right. That’s a good point. You know, you see attorneys in class action and particularly wage an hour, you know, you’ll see some firm specialize in, you know, collective wage-an-hour cases. They’ll do free consults and whistleblower. You know, whistleblowers, I think is the one area in our world where, you know, not…There are certainly very difficult cases, but where you can see multimillion dollar payouts. And so as a business model, it makes sense for a firm to talk to somebody with whistleblower claims, it’s more like personal injury in that way. And, you know, as a business model, it does make sense to do free consults to see if you can find that one big case.

You know, I think a good point that, something that you said, raised for me, and that is what’s your definition of a consult? You know, because it sounds like in your office, they do get some contact with your firm for free. Or at least in some instances, if they’re picking up the phone and talking to your associate, you know, that’s a certain level of screening and probably is about the same level of screening that somebody gets, you know, calling a personal injury attorney where they offer their blaring free consult. I mean, really what you’re usually…In those situations, who you’re talking to is a paralegal or a junior attorney who is going down a checklist to see if you, you know, line up with a case that they might want to take. And if so, then they’ll send you up to a more senior attorney, but it’s rare that…I mean, I guess in smaller towns, you might, but it’s rare that you’ve got, you know, the senior level trial attorney who’s the one picking up the phone.

Rebecca: I think that you hit the nail right on the head. And I can tell you for a fact because I have some senior personal injury friends. And unless they’re in their own shops, which some of them are, but if they’re in a larger firm, they’re not taking those calls. That’s not what they’re doing. They’re having the junior people do it. They’re having the paralegals do it. And at least in Massachusetts where insurance is very heavily regulated. You know, for example, if you’re in a car accident in Massachusetts, there’s certain statutory levels of collectability for people. And a lot of times, a paralegal can take a look and say, “This case is worth X. This case is worth Y.”

Tom: Yeah. And also, you know, I think because sometimes I’ve seen free consults, too, for criminal cases. And I think there’s no easy area of law. So, you know, for our brothers and sisters in criminal defense and doing personal injury, that’s not to suggest that what they are doing are easier, but at least in terms of the liability phase, it’s often much clearer. You know, as you know, if you’ve been in a car accident and, you know, somebody ran a red light and T-boned you, well, you’ve got a case.

There may be a question about how much it’s worth and what the damages are, but you’ve got a case. If you’ve been arrested for DUI, well, you’ve got a case. And the same is true, to a certain extent, for family lawyers. You know, if you’re going through a divorce or you want to get one, well, you’ve got a case, you know, whereas as you were talking about, Rebecca, you know, you come into an unemployment attorney’s office, it can actually take a little while to figure out whether what happened to you was illegal.

Rebecca: And, you know, the sad thing, Tom, which I think most people don’t realize, is that you can even have some comments, some fairly explicit comments. It doesn’t mean you have a case. Who made them? In what context? Are you in a jurisdiction where that matters or doesn’t matter? And most people don’t realize this about employment law. I mean, I hate to use legalese here, but stray remarks is often…it’s a doctrine that judges invented to get rid of claims where there are racial or ethnic slurs that are used against clients. Most people don’t know that.

Tom: Yeah. It’s a very good point. You know, and back to the issue of, you know, what a consult involves like, you know, we have…You know, if you come to our website, you can submit a form that’s reviewed by our attorneys and we don’t charge for that. And we sort of divide it up. So we call that a consult. And then we call coming in and talk with an attorney a strategy conference. So it’s not as if…And I think you’ll see that’s not an uncommon practice. I think most attorneys on the employment side will offer, you know, some kind of initial cut.

You know, so it’s not that you’re…Because a lot of people will say, “Well, do I have a case?” And I’m like, “Well, you know,” to your point, “Well, maybe, but I’ve got to get at least some initial information,” you know, because we get that because there are some times when you can just, you know, decide flat out that there’s no case. There’s no point in you…And we want to tell people that. You know, don’t bother coming in and paying us money because we can’t help you. You know, there’s nothing that we can do for you. So I think most…You know, I think for the consumer, you’ve got to be thinking about what does the consult really mean and not all consults are equal.

And, you know, I don’t think there’s anything…Some firms, employment, not many, and the same is true in your area, in our area, very few employment law, plaintiff side employment law attorneys will offer free consults, but I have seen some. And that’s not saying that if you’re a consumer, you shouldn’t avail yourself of those. You should just know what you’re getting. You know, like you’re getting the…In most cases, unless it’s somebody who has, you know, a trust fund or they don’t need to make any money, they’re willing to sit with whomever for however long to figure it out. Mostly what you are getting is an initial look to see, you know, “Hey, is this a big case or is this not?”

And as you point out, often with employment law cases, it’s…Even if you’re not sitting on a lottery ticket, there are lots of good things and there are lots of many valuable things you can learn from a consult, as you point out, if you’re still at work like how to handle a sticky situation or whether to report to HR, how to report to HR. And I’m sure you’ve experienced, you know, similar things in your office, but we’ve had people come in, you know, and they’re like, “Hey, this is…” You know, they pay for the consult. And we spend an hour with them. And they’ve got a severance offer on the table. And we’ll tell them, “You know, hey look. You know, here are some things you can do to try and negotiate a higher severance offer. You can hire us later, if you want, but there’s no harm in trying yourself.” And, you know, they’ve gone and experienced great success and gotten, you know, many multiples of what they paid us.

Rebecca: Exactly. No, I think that’s very true. And that’s one of the areas where I think that we can be most of service, is to explain to people, “Here’s what all this stuff means,” ask them some questions that they probably haven’t thought to ask, and take a look for some traps and pitfalls and give them some tools to go back and negotiate and make more informed decisions. And I think that’s worth many times what you’re paying the lawyer.

Tom: Yeah. I’m just curious in your area. And, of course, you don’t have to name names. Do you know of folks on plaintiff side who give free consults?

Rebecca: I’m trying to think now actually. I used to, but as I’m going through it in my head, I think they all charge some sort of fee at this point. The only ones that don’t I think are ones that have it as kind of a side part of their practice. The people that do this and this is all they do, they charge. The ones in the suburbs I think will charge more minimal amounts like maybe, you know, 50 bucks or something. Those of us downtown will charge in the hundreds.

Tom: Yeah. I’m trying to think here. And I couldn’t…While I have seen people, you know, when I’m just looking around at other attorneys, I have seen free consult offers, but for the most part, people around here, all the attorneys around here charge some kind of consult fee. You know, I had an attorney, a very bright guy, where Jacob Small and I was talking about earlier, who left my firm to start his own. And he started out doing free consults. And after about six months, decided that was a good way for him to go out of business and started charging consults because for all the reasons we’ve just discussed, also you’ve got to think about, you know, how you’re gonna keep the lights on.

And I think for a consumer, while certainly, you know, if you can find somebody who knows what they’re doing, who’s willing to sit down and spend time with you for free, well then, you know, go for it, but you got to wonder how they’re making it work. You know, what’s gonna happen if you go and they say you have a case and you like them and you hire them? Well, then are they taking time away from your case to give the next person a call as a free consult? Like, you know, I mean, you got to think about it that way, too.

Rebecca: That’s a very interesting point. And I also will say that I’ve had more than one or two people over the years come to me being disappointed with a lawyer who I think started out with the whole free consult who then didn’t assess the case properly. And it’s not so much the lawyer did a bad job as the expectations were set incorrectly from the very beginning. So going back to your point, which you made way at the beginning of the program, you get what you pay for. I think it’s really sad when people feel that they didn’t get something adequate and they were given bad information by a lawyer, but, you know, at the same time at the very beginning, they weren’t interested in investing any of their own money into the case.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s a fair point, too. And I think for folks who, you know, for somebody, let’s say, who works in a fast food industry who really just doesn’t, you know, where they just don’t have the money, you know, there are resources. You know, for example, like calling your firm or going to our firm and filling out the form, you know, we will…If you fill out our form and we’re like, “Wow. That is a really strong case,” we’ll call, you know. We’ll pick up the form. I don’t know. Do you do the similar sort of thing?

Rebecca: Yeah. No. Exactly. Fair enough. And I actually have done a lot of informal consultations for free for nonprofits, for example, like workers centers who have something that they’re not sure if it’s worth anything, but they don’t want to take up a lot of my time. And so they give me a call and we talk about it. And, you know, we have a good enough Commission Against Discrimination, our administrative agency, that sometimes the union stewards or the workers center leaders can probably do a lot at the beginning to help this person get something.

Tom: Yeah. No, absolutely.

Rebecca: I know that I use a little bit of my time and I’m happy to give it from that point of view, but it’s often very hard to even take cases, unless they’re very egregious sexual harassment, for low wage earners because, you know, McDonald’s has a lot of money to litigate this for three years.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Sure, or a wage case. I think those are, you know…So for people that are listening and if you’ve got a severe sexual harassment case where, you know, I’m just getting in the weeds a little bit, but where there are real emotional distress damages or you’ve got a…

Rebecca: Or just touching.

Tom: …touching, yeah. If there’s any…If you’re being…You know, your boss is coming in and grabbing and yanking and doing all that kind of stuff and you call around, you’ll find somebody to return your call, but, you know, it’s a good point, too, that…And sadly, you mostly find these in larger urban areas like you and I are in, but there are some good not-for-profits. You know, here in the D.C. area, we’ve got the Employment Justice Law Center, which we’ll put that in the notes.

I think it’s ejc.com that, you know, you can go, and they have experienced attorneys who come and give up their time to sit down and talk to people, particularly low wage earners, people who are victims of wage theft and that, but all kinds of things for free. You know, there’s also Avvo, avvo.com, has a service where you can pay a minimal amount. I think it’s $40 or something like that to get a consult with a lawyer. You know, here in this area, and I don’t know about for you, Rebecca, but a lot of local bar associations like the Fairfax County Bar Association here in Virginia offers a very low dollar consult. So you pay…if the fund money goes to the bar. And you pay 50 bucks or whatever it is. I forget what the price is, $50, and they will find you a lawyer on their list.

And these are private lawyers, you know, who are on their list to get a half hour of free consultation. When I first started, I was on that list until I got more established. So there can be some very good lawyers who do that. So it’s not just a matter of you have to pay a private attorney hundreds of dollars, there are other avenues.

Rebecca: Absolutely. And we do have a lot of services like that in the Commonwealth. We have the Volunteer Lawyers Project, Boston and Massachusetts Bar Associations require…they allow consult fees, but very, very low charge like $25 or something like that. There’s the Lawyers Committee on Civil Rights. So we have a lot of nonprofits in this area that will help people out for free. And I’m a very active member of the Women’s Bar Association and we have a family law project where we’ll give out services to people for free.

And I am hoping to expand it to cover some employment law services. And, you know, one thing that I really am passionate about is that we have to have legal services adequately funded because one of the reasons you and I are having this conversation is because there are so many people out there that just can’t afford anything, but Legal Services, because they have no more funding, cannot take their cases. And that’s really who needs to take these cases.

Tom: Yeah. That’s a great point. And, you know, Legal Services will take some. So for folks who are listening, and, you know, if you come to our office and we can’t take your case, you know, and we do this by email, but we also do it in person for people to come by. You know, we have a list, and you probably do, too, Rebecca, a list that we give folks and say, “Here are some of the resources that you can try to find an attorney.” And Legal Services are one, but you’re right. They are so overwhelmed.

There are some great attorneys, but it’s…You know, I wish I could tell people, “Hey, we can’t help you. Go to Legal Services. They’ll definitely going to be able to help you,” but what I tell them is, “You should try calling, but understand that they are swamped. And the chances that they are gonna…” I mean, they certainly are not gonna be able to do, and not because they’re not talented, because they don’t have the time and the resources to do a really complicated drawn out Federal employment law case. They just can’t.

Rebecca: They can’t. And at least in Massachusetts, they have been prioritizing. And any case that even has the potential of attorney’s fees for a private lawyer, they will not take. So essentially, all legal services in Massachusetts really does any more with respect to employment is unemployment claims.

Tom: Yeah, that’s probably about the same here, which is really, you know, too bad. Well, another thing that you and I should mention that on the initiative that you and I both just joined is the National Women’s Law Center just started their gender equity initiative. And so you can call the National Women’s Law Center, which is based in D.C., but they are starting a network of employment attorneys who can take these cases.

And I don’t know exactly what the vetting process with their law center is, but I’m fairly certain they don’t charge. So for people that are facing, you know, sexual, particularly women, facing sexual harassment, equal pay issues, other kinds of discrimination issues, pregnancy discrimination, you know, you can call the National Women’s Law Center. And not only will you probably get some at least informational help from them, but they’re, like I said, building these network of attorneys that they can try to help you, refer you to.

Rebecca: Exactly. And I don’t believe that they have any sort of charge just to call. And I think what they will do is do some additional screening and then refer you to lawyers that are on the list for your state. And the lawyers have all agreed to sit down with folks and not to charge a consultation fee. So for that sort of…Then you’ll have a list of lawyers there that have agreed to do this. And that is a great resource actually. I think a lot of very good plaintiff’s lawyers from across the country have signed up.

Tom: Yeah. I’m really excited about that great work that they are doing. So, you know, I think for folks who are listening, I mean, I think if you have the money, and most people can, you know, unless you’re really dead broke, can find the money for what you value for the reasons that you and I talked about, it’s worth it, even if you’re calling the National Women’s Law Center. You know, the attorney you may be put in touch with, well, they’re gonna spend some time with you, but some of these other services, you may have a limited time, but if you’ve got the money to pay for a consult fee, it’s worth it.

You’re gonna get something. You’re gonna get an hour of an attorney’s time to really dig into your case and look at your documents. That’s really worth it. If you don’t have those, then try the National Women’s…If you don’t have that money at all, you know, try the National Women’s Law Center, or try avvo.com. Try your local…whatever county you are in, look up the local bar and see if they have a lawyer’s referral service. And those can be resources, too.

Rebecca: Yeah. Exactly. I think this is all really good information. And what I’d like to see is just a better network of socially-funded legal resources for folks that can’t afford it, but until we get there.

Tom: Yeah. No, exactly. Until we get there, you know, you gotta kind of patch things together. Another resource worth mentioning, you know, that’s come up in a lot of our other podcasts, but the National Employment Lawyer’s Association. You can’t get a consult for free through their organization, but they do have a good list of plaintiff side lawyers that you can use wherever you are. It’s a nationwide lawyer locator service that you can find lawyers that provide these services. And then, Rebecca, you were mentioning to me something before the call. Was it the Workplace Fairness blog? What was it you were talking about?

Rebecca: Oh, yes. The Workplace Fairness. On their website, they have a lot of really good Q&A for legal consumers and for workers that have either lost their job or think they’re gonna lose their job. And there’s a very good explanation about what to expect when you confront the legal system to try and get some redress for wrongs at work. And they do have an explanation about consultation fees. They also have an explanation about what happens under the law, what attorneys are thinking, what they’re looking for, how to prepare for the meeting with your lawyer. It’s really very helpful I think for people to read, especially if this is your first encounter with the legal world, which for most folks, it is.

Tom: Yeah. No, that’s right. And we’ll put this in the show notes, but is it workplacefairness.com or is it .org? What’s the website?

Rebecca: .org.

Tom: [crosstalk 00:27:48].

Rebecca: .org. I’m pretty sure it’s .org.

Tom: Yeah, workplacefairness.org. It’s a fantastic website. And another resource that we should mention, particularly for pregnancy and caregiver discrimination cases, is the Center for Work Life Law.

Rebecca: Yes.

Tom: Yeah, worklifelaw.org. It’s out of California. And they also…I’m pretty sure, they have a list of lawyers there too that, if you call them, they can…

Rebecca: They do.

Tom: Well, first of all, it’s…

Rebecca: They have a hotline. And they actually do pretty good screening. And they have good relationships with the lawyers. I know when they refer cases to me, they have discussions with me before I even take the case. And they do a very detailed intake process, which is very, very helpful. So they’re great. The resources on their website are great. If you are pregnant, they’ve got Pregnant@work, which is very helpful for both pregnant women and their physicians in terms of getting pregnant women accommodated at work. So it’s a great, great website. I highly recommend going to it and taking a read.

Tom: Yeah. And I don’t know that we have any employers listening. I doubt that we do, but they help both sides for employers that [crosstalk 00:28:55].

Rebecca: They do. They do. And they have very good resources for both sides of the equation on this.

Tom: Yes. That’s [inaudible 00:29:01], too, they do great work. I highly recommend that website. And as you point out, too, I don’t know that we have any doctors listening necessarily, but just in case we do, for doctors that are treating or that have to write a letter, you know, for ADA accommodation, they’ve got an unbelievable…I don’t know. I think it’s a one-of-a-kind resource that even based on your state can give you some information on how to write a letter for your patient, which is fantastic.

Rebecca: Yeah. No, it literally will just sort of spit the letter out for you. It really tries to take all the work off the doctor.

Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we got a little for a fee over, but just in case we have any doctors out there that are facing that. Well, this has been fantastic. I hope that people find this useful. Is there anything that I haven’t asked you about or any points that you can think of that you would like to raise for folks about the issue of consults?

Rebecca: I can’t think of anything. I think we’ve covered a lot. So I can’t think of anything, but I think this has been a great conversation. And I hope folks who listen to it have a better understanding of the legal world and what we do. And it’s been great chatting with you, Tom.

Tom: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you being on, Rebecca. Well, good luck with everything. And I look forward to having you back on to talk about…You know, once we kind of…You know, right now, we’re going through some of the as a somebody who was fired might, you know, kind of early stages of how to find a lawyer and, you know, go to a consult, but as we get further along in the podcast, we do want to talk about some substantive issues. So I’d love to have you back on to talk about non-competes and pregnancy cases and some of the good work that you do.

Rebecca: I would love to be back on. I look forward to it.

Tom: Okay, Rebecca. You take care.

Rebecca: You too. Bye-bye.

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